| The Emulation Thread (Gasp! Non-purist!); All about emulation, judgment-free | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 9 2017, 02:26 AM (244 Views) | |
| UltraCraig64 | Jan 9 2017, 02:26 AM Post #1 |
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Newbie
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Let me start this off by saying that I generally use FCEUX. The current stable version is 2.2.3, released July 28, 2016. For kaillera netplay, I use Nestopia UE 1.47, released January 9, 2016. In case anyone was wondering, the UE stands for Undead Edition. This is an unofficial continuation of Nestopia as its original author has abandoned the project, and there hasn't been an official release since Version 1.40 back in 2008. I am currently looking into using graphical filters, and was wondering if anyone had a favorite. |
| A little less conversation, a little more touch my body | |
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| strx10 | Jan 9 2017, 02:41 AM Post #2 |
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Sexy Beast
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RetroArch is a pretty good front end that has a good amount of filters and it also emulates several consoles. I've used it a bit and got some scanline/composite degradation effects to work nicely. I know you can also add more effects and people have developed custom ones to go along with the stock filters. What's neat is it also uses the Higan core so emulation is as close to perfection as it comes. |
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| shain | Jan 9 2017, 08:26 AM Post #3 |
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Shitposter
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everyone seems to always bitch about input lag and whatnot. what emulator is the most INPUT ACCURATE? |
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| calgone | Jan 9 2017, 10:20 AM Post #4 |
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calcron
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That's a good question. From what I gather just running an emulator itself will exert a minuscule, almost non-detectable lag. Just by virtue of emulating hardware there COULD be a tiny ammount that virtually no one will notice. It's your input that has the lag that you "feel". For example hooking a device to an HD tv generates lag as the tv has to upconvert the image. From there, using a blue tooth controller adds slight lag as well, so these things when in combination can make a few games unplayable to people who use the real deal. I can only go from personal experience but if you're using a wired USB controller and just playing on a computer or something you would mitigate most of these issues. |
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| DamienC | Jan 9 2017, 10:36 AM Post #5 |
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Shitposter
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GAMEPADS: IDK if I'm just being picky but I typically have terrible input lag and I usually chalk it up to the gamepads. I've used a wired 360 controller, wireless 360 controller, Gravis Gamepad Pro USB, and a generic no-name gamepad and they all have issues in one way or another. Anything with an analog stick as opposed to a D-Pad is terrible because you can't get precise movements out of the stick, and using the D-Pad of those controllers doesn't work well either because they're not meant for movement and typically have a bit of a "heavier" action. The wireless controller obviously lagged the worst which is a shame because I like that one in general. The Gravis pad and my no-name pad were the best lag wise, but still control badly because they have "squishy" D-pads and can be quirky when trying to make diagonal movements, i.e. instead of going up and right occasionally going hard right or up causing you to go a completely wrong direction. Haven't tried any of those "retro" USB controllers or a USB port adapter yet but I hear mixed things about them. EMULATORS/FILTERS: Ideally for me any emulator I use should be able to scale to a full screen HD monitor with proper aspect/pixel ratio, V-sync for tearing and a scanline filter for aesthetics, but more often than not one or all of these things are broken even in the best modern emulators. NESTopia UE has a good scanline filter but if you scale it to not a multiple of 2 (i.e. 3x) the scanlines will be aliased. The V-Sync doesn't appear to work for me or just isn't very good. KEGA Fusion is pretty good for Genesis/SMS/GG/32X. IIRC it does all those things I like pretty well. Both ZSNES and SNES9X are quirky with their video settings and I don't like how they handle them at all. IIRC SNES9X was a little better but I haven't used either in a while. ePSXe is very good at emulating PS1 stuff and has plenty of video/plugin options. This is the rare case with emulation where I actually like using stuff like anisotropic filtering and anti-aliasing because it does wonders for low-poly 3D stuff. MAME is the only game in town for arcade shit but LOL GOOD LUCK FINDING THE PROPER ROMS because this piece of shit STILL expects different file names with every release. No scanline filtering option that I know of. And Retropie/Emulation Station is great for the Raspberry Pi but good luck trying to change any settings other than input. There are multiple config files per system and they're all buried in the filesystem, and even when you find them they're very obtuse with minimal documentation. Good thing the games look pretty good out of the box. |
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| strx10 | Jan 9 2017, 05:00 PM Post #6 |
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Sexy Beast
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^ You can get scanlines for MAME pretty easily actually. Open mame.ini, search for effects and you should find a line that says 'effects none' and just change it to 'effects scanlines' and you're good. I did it with vanilla MAME 64 without a front end and had no issues. Here's a cap of Robotron with scanlines. You can adjust all the minor details in there in there like distance, alpha and all that, but the default settings work well enough for me. I also second the FUCK MAME AND ITS BS ROM DETECTION. HOW HAVE THEY STILL NOT FIGURED THIS SHIT OUT YET?
Like cal sort of stated, it's more of the use of HDTVs than the actual emulator. I have a pretty good Sony LCD monitor, but it still has a very noticeable latency compared to the good ol' CRT TV. To be honest, I had never even noticed this before and wondered why people were bitching about lag until I played an NES on a CRT and then on an emu immediately afterwards. It becomes very apparent that you gain like a half second delay on movements making things a lot harder than they should be. I now know why people bitch and moan about HD latency lag. There are some modern monitors/TVs that do a good job of minimizing this, but even then there still will be some inevitable delay. I wonder if a standard CRT computer monitor has any delay... Also do you guys think we should just rename this topic and make it the general emulation thread? I don't think Craig would mind. |
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| portnoyd | Jan 9 2017, 06:38 PM Post #7 |
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WET NOSE
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Sure, go for it. I have a USB SNES adapter. No problems with it but I haven't used it with emulation. For SNES, you want Higan by byuu. The emulator name may not ring a bell, but byuu might - he's the autism powered programmer who bought an entire SNES and SFC set just to do proper dumps for the emulator. Another one for LOL MAME. Anyone who updates MAME on every version is sadistic. Previously, I would just download a "full" set every few years, get the matching version and delete the old one. While Wii emulation is apparently a thing and a working thing, N64 emulation is apparently still shit. Which is kinda funny. There will always be twits who say only a CRT is perfect and they are indeed twits. They are the kind of people who don't use Steam because the games have DRM. If you get an upscaler like the XRGB Mini or OSSD and find a HDTV with low latency, you'll be fine. |
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| DamienC | Jan 9 2017, 07:00 PM Post #8 |
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Shitposter
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I have actually used Higan and although the emulation is good HOLY SHIT the interface fucking sucks. It definitely FEELS like an autist wrote it. I'm sure it makes perfect sense to him. I hate that you have to add ROMs to essentially a "playlist" instead of File -> Open like every other god damn app ever made. Maybe just the Linux version is like this, IDK.
WTF, I searched for this all over the internet and MAME's forums and all I could find was people saying you needed to create your own overlay or some shit. You'd think it would be better documented. Thank you for telling me this, arcade stuff looks way sexier with scanlines. Although vertical scanlines kind of rub me the wrong way. I know it's hardware-accurate, but it looks awkward on an LCD. |
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| strx10 | Jan 9 2017, 07:19 PM Post #9 |
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Sexy Beast
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^I feel the same way about Higan. I'm absolutely fucking confused every single time I use it. The thing works great, but I always seem to add games by pure chance and that's it. I also can't believe there's no real documentation about adding scanlines or effects. I GUESS THAT GOES WITH THE TERRITORY FOR MAME. Oh and you actually can flip the scanlines. In the artwork directory, there should be an image file called 'scanlines.png' which I guess is the overlay for the effect. I renamed mine 'scanlines2.png', rotated the image, tested it out, and this was the result.
I also have an SNES to USB adapter and I use it often. It works really well and I cannot recommend this investment enough just for all emulation in general.
It's funny how N64 in general is still really kinda spotty for emulation. Guess they'll never quite figure that one out. On that note, lately I've been playing playing Perfect Dark and Goldeneye with this reworked emulator that uses WASD mouse configuration with plugins that make the games look waaaaay way better and run at 60fps. I tried this a few years ago and it was really rough, but now it seems nearly flawless so it's great that they didn't give up on this. If anyone enjoys those games, I highly highly recommend you grab this emu and give it a shot. The games have never felt better.
God the level of autism on the ms latency is ridiculous. I did some looking up stuff about the xRGB and there are threads scattered online still bitching about delay right down to a tenth of a frame. I'll agree that when you have upscalers or a nice HD monitor that shit doesn't really matter. I just cant bring myself to buy any of that stuff currently so my shitty 13" TV is definitely saving the day from huge delays on my cheap ass/ancient monitors so I can see their point... to some extent anyway
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| DamienC | Jan 9 2017, 07:50 PM Post #10 |
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Shitposter
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As flimsy as the construction of the AVS is, its HD output is really great and there's no input lag that I was able to notice. If I didn't already have my original NES and a ton of CRTs it would be the way I would choose. I love CRT output but that doesn't mean old consoles can't be done right on LCDs. |
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| Bratwurst | Jan 9 2017, 09:02 PM Post #11 |
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BIG JERK
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I really don't notice input lag too often except when it would be glaringly obvious, what I do notice is when MAME screen-tears from mismatched sync between it and a sluggish LCD. But then I'm not in the habit of playing a game on CRT and then immediately emulating it on an LCD monitor afterwards, to appreciate controller lag. I can say when it came to CRT computer monitors, they were so much more advanced in comparison to standard definition sets. Capable of so many different refresh rates. When I couldn't find a decent monitor locally to replace my dying 21 inch Trinitron, I had to settle on a 19 inch LCD, this must have been back around 2005 or 2006, and it took my a while to adjust. Yet if I had to go back now it would be just as rough, as I've gotten used to the clean, no-glare qualities of LCD. |
LOOK LOOK AT HOW AMAZING THE FORUMS ARE NOW
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| shain | Jan 9 2017, 11:49 PM Post #12 |
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Shitposter
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I remember specifically buying a LCD with a low response time to deal with the ghosting effects when I made the leap from CRT to LCD and it was still awful. I'd love to have a CRT if I could find a nice one for cheap, but so does every other wanker. |
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2:41 AM Jul 11