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| What's up with the internet and the N64? | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 30 2017, 04:57 PM (342 Views) | |
| Jin | Apr 30 2017, 04:57 PM Post #1 |
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Shitposter
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I remember picking up the N64 with my family the day it came out in 1996. I also remember it being the first console we'd bought where there was no pack-in game, and the system only came with one controller. Mario 64's availability had been limited, and at launch, we had to pay 70 dollars for it (Which while not unheard of, was usually only something that happened in the case of buying scarce JRPG games on the SNES). The first few years of the N64 saw the great majority of games released being trash-tier third-party games. Not S-Tier third parties like Konami, Capcom, Square, etc. but from D-Tier third parties like Acclaim / Midway. There were some definite stand-outs, first party games like Mario Kart 64, and second-party games like Goldeneye and Banjo-Kazooie. However they were a clear minority in an already sparse library of games. In the NES Scene during these times, I remember resentment for Nintendo being fairly pronounced. Many who grew up with the NES and SNES disliked how Nintendo seemed to be "babyifying" their image by catering to small children, only heightened by the lack of mature third-party franchises that had once been mainstays of their previous consoles. The lack of decent games as a whole was a sour point, and this began popping up on a ton of NES Scene sites because of it: ![]() Things seemed to really boil over when Nintendo made it clear in Nintendo Power that Zelda 64-- a game which many had been patiently waiting years for-- would now require the separate purchase of the N64DD in order to play it. A bunch of people jumped ship, and Nintendo abandoned that plan at the 11th hour having almost pulled a Sega on its userbase. But nowadays, the N64 seems to be a kind of "sacred cow" among younger generations that people get irrationally angry about when it's criticized. Say a bad word about its library on other parts of the internet, and you're liable to stir up a hornet's nest. They'll angrily point to the two Zelda games, Mario Party, Smash Bros, and Paper Mario, but conveniently leave out the absolute deluge of shitty-to-mediocre third-party shovelware games that flooded the console out of some kind of blind allegiance to the system. What happened to cause such a huge shift? |
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| strx10 | Apr 30 2017, 05:27 PM Post #2 |
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Sexy Beast
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This is actually a conversation I've had with several people on this forum so it'll be interesting to see them weigh in. I think it's a generational thing. Now we're at an period of time where most of Youtube and other mediums content providers were of the 'peak childhood age' of 8-13 when the N64 was released so there's a shitload of nostalgia attached to it. They control the narrative for that reason alone so that's why it's worshiped heavily these days just due to their multi-generational audiences lapping it up and repeating it. I can also attest that I fall within that nostalgia bomb age range and I hear nothing but how great the 64 was from nearly every person I know no matter how nerdy or 'average' they are. Pure nostalgia. I'm always the asshole pointing out the consoles flaws and they cling to Mario Kart 64 or some other game as the be all end all argument ender much as you've pointed out Jin. One thing people do forget is the 64 had only about 300 games released in the US which hurts it more than helps it. Just on a pure numbers game alone that means most games are going to be shitty with even fewer being genuinely good. This is just how the numbers game works and with the PSX having nearly 2500 games along with all the major third party developers, the 64 didn't stand a chance. |
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| Reverend Crush | Apr 30 2017, 05:40 PM Post #3 |
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BIG JERK
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Believe me, I've been trying to figure this out since the N64's lifespan. This was the point where a lot of Nintendo's major third parties from previous generations started releasing their major titles on PlayStation (and/or Saturn), and the games they did get were mostly garbage. I bought one used right around the time I got married in 2009 with a few of the major games, and honestly, I think I did the right thing skipping out on the console. GoldenEye didn't intrigue me, SM64 felt like too much of a departure from the original four SMB games, Zelda OOT had an awful camera interface and really boring dungeons (even the 3DS remake did not fix the issue I had with it), Goemon, while funny, was nowhere near as fun as the SNES games, Quest 64 was the hugest piece of shit RPG I had played at that time, and that OgreBattle game is okay I guess but still wasn't good as nearly every game in that series. I remember watching G4 (yeah, I was really bored that day, I guess), and they had a piece on the greatest consoles of all time. This was sometime in 2000-2001. The goddamned N64 somehow beat every console released by that time period. I honestly don't see the appeal. Sure, it introduced analog controls, but while it was ideal for 3D games, there were some really shitty design flaws. I can live with "Nintendo Thumb" from the NES D-Pad, but that analog stick gave people really painful blisters. Sad that Sony was the one to get analog controls right. I will admit that SM64 was the better "mascot" game compared to Crash Bandicoot and the Saturn's... uh... NiGHTS I guess... but everything else? Ugh... I guess MAYBE if the N64 was your first console you may have some bias towards it, but hell, my first console was the Atari 2600, and I can honestly say I wouldn't lose any sleep if I were denied from ever playing any 2600 game for the rest of my days, and I really feel the same way about the N64. It's a really flawed system. |
I'M ON DRUGS!![]() let me be the first to say that whatever it is i am doing, it's definitely not trying. - Edsel | |
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| portnoyd | Apr 30 2017, 05:45 PM Post #4 |
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WET NOSE
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One reason why I suspect is what strx alluded to: the small library. At least from a collecting perspective, it becomes "easier" and with the hype around game collecting, that's all it takes. The smaller library makes some people think that it is condensed and purer than the PS1. So basically everything strx said. Go me. The same exact thing happened with the Intellivision. Smaller library, perceived higher quality, much more intense nostalgia and prices. The games look like ass even on the best setup. As I mentioned in the Whatchuplayin thread, Conker's Bad Fur Day does not hold up well at all anymore. And that's a big title N64 purists will point to. It's not funny and it plays like ass and also Rare. |
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| Bratwurst | Apr 30 2017, 05:57 PM Post #5 |
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BIG JERK
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Maybe it's the fact there were so few good games on the N64 (and an overall tiny library) that ensured the system was a consistent experience. It seemed like the N64 was the default for a household with kids in the 90s and even early 2000s. Nintendo had become a brand synonymous with the likes of Disney, Nickelodeon, etc. for parents. Whereas we had not just the NES, but the Sega Master System, the Genesis, warmed over leftovers from the Atari era, Turbo Grafx, and later the SNES, our formative years were potentially subject to a wide deviating range of platforms and genres. No two households in a neighborhood were guaranteed to have the same setup or library, I know for a fact I swapped games all the time in elementary school because everyone had something different than you. The N64 is probably the closest in Nintendo's history of products to have served as a common fixture in a generation of kids growing up, while adults and teenagers focused on the Playstation. Everything after was hurt by shrinking market share as mobile entertainment took over. Maybe the Wii has had a similar effect, I dunno, we will have to wait and see. |
LOOK LOOK AT HOW AMAZING THE FORUMS ARE NOW
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| clawx | Apr 30 2017, 06:23 PM Post #6 |
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Administrator
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I don't even like the N64 games people point too as good hahah. |
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| Killer_of_kids | Apr 30 2017, 08:21 PM Post #7 |
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JERK
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Harvest moon 64 is dope. I think it was the golden age for modern gaming. Other than my PS3 n64 could possibly be my most played system |
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| lizardmanlizardmanlizardman | Apr 30 2017, 08:47 PM Post #8 |
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Shitposter
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very few good games and a really shitty controller |
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| Killer_of_kids | Apr 30 2017, 10:31 PM Post #9 |
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JERK
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At first , I really liked the control tbh! Fast forward what, 15 years it does suck. But I always thought the Xbox controllers sucked. N64 and sega D.C. Are , the same to a sense. I'd rather use a n64 paddle than a touch screen phone to so. I mean though hands down you break games into classic too people. And depending on the generation either Pong on the Atari or some NES game pops up into heads. Or super Mario 64, or Mario kart or the f zeros , Forsaken. You get the occasional sega, sink , psx- crash bandicoot people, but heir not found outside native forums. |
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| strx10 | Apr 30 2017, 11:41 PM Post #10 |
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Sexy Beast
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I've felt the same way for a long time, but recently I came upon an emulator fork that allows 60fps, texture smoothing, and legitimate WASD mouse for Goldeneye and Perfect Dark. Both games feel and look incredible with these mods and the emulator is still being updated as recently as today. Here's a link to the emulator in case you or anyone else wanted to check it out. Ironically this also lends to the argument that a vanilla 64 blows chunks because this plays way better on the PC than the actual console. Go figure. Port and Brat both brought up two points I hadn't considered, but definitely are part of it I think. The collector aspect of the smaller library, and the fact this was Nintendo's first platform after the wild west days of the console wars. Damn good calls by you guys. I also linked this topic to ULTRACRAIG64, the biggest N64 supporter/apologist I know. Let's hope we get a legendary and typical 60,000 word Craigfest of a response rebuking every single one of our posts. |
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| lizardmanlizardmanlizardman | May 2 2017, 03:28 PM Post #11 |
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Shitposter
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Personal preference aside, it's just not a good controller. Xbox controllers aren't great, but the 360 controller and whatever came from that that's vaguely Playstation 2 esque is fine. The main problem with the N64, if I ignore everything about it and just look at the console in a vacuum, is that I just don't see many games worth going back to. Stuff like Ocarina of Time and Super Mario 64 still hold up as good games though Super Mario 64 more so. Mario Kart is fine but I wouldn't pick it over the SNES one. The F-Zero X is fun, and the track editor on the N64DD is cool. I personally prefer F-Zero GX because I think it overall accomplishes the speed and intensity meshed with the sort of campiness that F-Zero was pretty much always aiming for. Harvest Moon 64 is actually the only Harvest Moon game I ever enjoyed because of the limited space in your inventory that forces you to really do shit. I also don't really like farming sims so I guess take this with a grain of salt. Pokemon Puzzle League is alright. Sin & Punishment is fine. Outside of those couple of games (I might be missing some), everything on the N64 has aged horribly. Goldeneye. Banjo Kazooie. DK64. Mario Party was always horrible, same with Majora's Mask. They simply do not hold up, in any sense of the term. On top of this, games on the N64 that were good like Perfect Dark and Paper Mario have been updated to far superior versions. Perfect Dark has been re-released and updated, complete with online play. Paper Mario was kind of lackluster when it came out, but Paper Mario Thousand Year Door is a really good game that does everything the original did but better. On the merits of the games, the N64 falls short in every possible way. It just was never that good. Compared to the amount of buzz generated for the system and what was delivered, it's a complete failure. |
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| Percy | May 2 2017, 07:45 PM Post #12 |
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Shitposter
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Like others have said - it's a nostalgia thing. I noticed among my generation (I'm 32), it seems to be really loved by the average person but I notice a lot of hardcore gamer types online don't seem to care for it. I think a lot of it has to do with the multiplayer, which it was pretty good at. I do have fond memories of playing Smash, Goldeneye, Mario Kart, Mario Tennis etc... However for me, it's really where Nintendo lost their shine. I was entranced by Mario 64 when the system came out. I bought a system and while I dug the first party and Rare stuff...to me, Nintendo was more than just Mario and Zelda. It was also Mega Man, Castlevania, Final Fantasy, Street Fighter etc...and all that stuff (at least the games worth playing) went to the Playstation). I hated the near disappearance of 2D games, the lack of RPGs and (non-shitty) fighters and the muddy, blurry graphics. The dearth of games for the system was ridiculous. I rented most of the games I played back then and I swear some months the only new games at the rental store would be 2-3 shitty racing games. The lack of games for the system is a HUGE part of what led me back to NES collecting. I don't think it's aged particularly well either. I think while most people can see the aesthetic appeal of 8 and 16-bit pixel art - I'm not sure if anyone feels the same about low framerate and blurry low polygon count models of that era. Hell, Ocarina isn't even in the top 5 Zelda games IMO (though I like Majora's Mask a lot, I played it a couple years ago on the virtual console and thought it held up pretty well). I can appreciate Nintendo ignoring trends doing things their way - but the cartridge format and wacky controller cost them almost all their 3rd party support and Sony (and Microsoft I guess) has been eating their lunch ever since. That being said, the system had it's moments. I think everyone knows the first party and Rare stuff but the AKI wrestling games, the Goemon games, Body Harvest, and Ogre Battle 64 (one of the only real RPGs for the system) were all excellent. |
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| calgone | May 3 2017, 07:51 AM Post #13 |
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calcron
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Same. I sincerely feel Mario 64 and ocarina are the only two worthwhile games on the system. It kept me out of gaming for its lifespan and I was their target demo. In hindsight though it's what got me back into NES. I feel so bad for anyone who payed 70 dollars for that castlevania game. |
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| Sir MuffRaider The Great | May 3 2017, 10:54 AM Post #14 |
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Shitposter
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I liked the N64 but hated Goldeneye...along with pretty much every other FPS game ever made. |
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| portnoyd | May 3 2017, 11:28 AM Post #15 |
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WET NOSE
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Oh man, that game was just awful. I remember renting it in college, playing it for an hour while wondering how the hell this was supposed to be CV. |
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